Talk:Benjamin Linus

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Talk:Ben Linus


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Contents

Rewrite

This article needs to be re-written in the past tense. Half of the article is written is past and half is written in present. --Lewis-Talk-Contribs 09:36, 2 February 2008 (PST)

I did a little cleanup. How is it now?--Outpost road 12:00, 12 February 2008 (PST)

its fine. Dharmatel4 13:29, 12 February 2008 (PST)

Dean Moriarty?

When did Ben take the name "Dean Moriarty"? On the road at some point?

--Stephenenelson 23:02, 14 February 2008 (PST)

It's the name on his fake Swiss passport (found in "The Economist"). Jsnell 23:07, 14 February 2008 (PST)
It's actually the name on his fake Canadian passport (found in The Shape of Things to Come. Rddswim 12:39, 18 June 2008 (EST)
I think that was a reference to the Jack Kerouac book. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  11:56, 20 May 2008 (PDT)
And Moriarty is also the name of Sherlock Holmes's greatest enemy. --Minderbinder 12:00, 20 May 2008 (PDT)

Why did he come to the camp?

Why did Ben come near the Losties camp in Season 2 and then was caught by Rousseau. He told Locke that he was coming for him and he's one of the good ones.

  • What if he was traveling just like he traveled to the Sahara. Maybe he traveled back to the Island by the same means and found himself in a trap on accident. I've wondered about this a lot, because it seems hard to believe that he just 'got caught' while walking around. --DeepForestGreen 12:52, 1 May 2008 (PDT)
    • Interesting but should be placed in theories. --Messeis 11:56, 1 July 2008 (PDT)

Move to Benjamin again

I suggest to move the article to Benjamin Linus again for following reason: nobody ever called him Ben Linus. He was called either Benjamin Linus, or Benjamin, or simple Ben. If this isn't going to happen, I expext to be explained why, please Malachi 11:44, 9 April 2008 (PDT)

I agree. Benjamin Linus is his full first and last name. Aobozu 09:42, 21 April 2008 (PDT)
Disagree ABC call him Ben in their press releases and (I think) in the credits.--TechNic|talk|conts 11:13, 21 April 2008 (PDT)
Agree No one ever calls him "Ben" Linus. --James W. 19:26, 21 April 2008 (PDT)
Disagree We changed this article from Benjamin Linus to Ben Linus in mid-2007. I dont see any new argument presented here that would juetify the re-opening of this question. Dharmatel4 20:00, 21 April 2008 (PDT)
Agree Yes, that is his proper name. All that will need done is redirects from Ben Linus set up - nothing hard at all. Peterricca 12:24, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Disagree Articles are named based on what the character is generally referred to on the show, not their full name. Just look at the transcripts, the other characters call him Ben way more often than Benjamin. As above, ABC also uses "Ben". Articles for Kate, Libby, and John Locke use Kate, Libby, and John, not Katherine, Elizabeth and Johnathan in the titles. This should be consistent with those and use Ben. --Minderbinder 12:35, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Disagree for reasons stated by Minderbinder. BETTYFIZZW (Talk) 15:21, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Agree...sorta. He introduces himself as "Benjamin Linus" without fail; Minderinder, I can appreciate your argument, certainly, but there's somewhat of a difference because he does indeed introduce himself this way. "Ben" is the name that most people then refer to him by, but...I dunno. Doesn't make that big a difference either way, especially since "Ben Linus" would still direct to this page. Datameister 21:30, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Disagree We have an unwritten naming convention that says we use their common name used on the show unless its a nickname, at which point we put it in quotes, which is why we have Hugo "Hurley" Reyes, James "Sawyer" Ford etc. To highlight this common naming convention, we also have John Locke not Johnathan Locke. Further more, we moved this about a year ago from Benjamin Linus to Ben Linus, and no new arguments have been presented to change this, or the naming convention. People know him as "Ben".  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  04:29, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
I don't remember anybody ever calling Locke Johnathan. I also don't remember anybody using Ben Linus as his [Ben's] full name. Contrary from Locke, he is called Benjamin quite often, he even introduces himself as Benjamin Linus and we never heard anybody using his second name after Ben, only after Benjamin. I simply don't understand, why LP choose such weird combination of first and second name, that was never heard on the show or anywhere else. Malachi 05:22, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
Then you obviously didn't watch Further Instructions closely enough!!! I'm starting to think renaming to Benjamin might be better though in hindsight. Your point about never calling him Ben Linus on the show is some what mute, considering your nomination to rename Tom to Tom Friendly, yet they've never called him "Tom Friendly" on the show either...  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  07:40, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
Kate is called Katherine a few times, yet her article is still called Kate. Sure, they use Benjamin a few times, and he introduces himself that way a few times (maybe twice? I count about seven uses of "benjamin linus"). But Ben is used on the show far more often. I don't get the fixation on whether they use Ben when they say his last name - since it's rare for the show to refer to any character by full name, first and last, I don't see why those few mentions should determine an article title - the only reason people haven't said "Ben Linus" is because they hardly ever refer to ANY character by full name. I wouldn't be surprised if they've said "Kathryn Austen" more than "Kate Austen" on the show, but I still wouldn't consider that reason to rename her article. --Minderbinder 09:12, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

Just as a sidenote, his DHARMA uniform says "Ben" not "Benjamin". His full name may Benjamin, but he is far more commonly called Ben.--TechNic|talk|conts 09:43, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

Good catch! That does indeed convince me :) Malachi 11:02, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree: If you're going to say his last name, you have to say his first name in full! Benjamin Linus sounds better the Ben Linus anyway!!--LOSTMAN1 19:08, 25 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Other: This seems to be good evidence that the style policy on this issue is hard to follow in a consistent and clear manner. Maybe we should just use everyone's full names as article titles. --Jackdavinci 22:18, 25 April 2008 (PDT)
    • Agree: I agree with this statement. It does make more sense to change the policy, as this is an encylopedia after all, and should be kept relatively formal. Bltsponge 21:32, 28 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree: and if enough people disagree, the Benjamin 'Ben' Linus idea is a good compromise. -Moo 01:48, 26 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree': Ben identifies himself as "Benjamin Linus" (as evidenced in The Glass Ballerina), it is only other people who identify him as 'Ben'.
  • Agree/Other: Either we rename it to Benjamin Linus or to Benjamin "Ben" Linus like it's done with Sawyer article - Ben Linus is just as stupid as Sawyer Ford. SFilip 08:18, 26 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Disagree: Is there anyone having trouble identifying the character because of the name in use? Two sentiments from a long Army career: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." and "We're polevaulting over mouseturds."--Gaarmyvet 09:36, 27 April 2008 (PDT)
    • Thing is, it only takes 5 seconds or so to change it. SFilip 04:22, 28 April 2008 (PDT)
      • And 10 days to bicker over a renaming/moving discussion that will ultimately do little else than provide a small form of aesthetic for the article regardless of the outcome. -PsychoYoshi 17:10, 28 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree: It's his full name - and you rarely hear 'Ben' and 'Linus' together, anyhow. It's one or the other, or 'Benjamin Linus'.--Goodwin's Ghost 18:04, 30 April 2008 (PDT)
Comment I agree with naming it to Benjamin Linus, because this is how the character refers to himself. However, Kate doesn't refer to herself as "Katharine," so that should not be changed. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  19:08, 30 April 2008 (PDT)
  • AGREE - it should definitely be renamed to Benjamin Linus. --CTS 20:21, 30 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree. Introduces himself as "Benjamin Linus" ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 22:07, 30 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree - He calls himself Benjamin Linus Phil (talk) 11:26, 1 May 2008 (PDT)

Agree - People call him Ben, or Benjamin Linus. Since the page will not only say his first name, it should say Benjamin Linus. Agree, same as reasons as you guys. --The Cartographer 20:46, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

Agree this is the case with many characters --Hostile108 03:31, 3 May 2008 (PDT)

  • Agree as the above --Ampts 03:53, 3 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree Because Benjamin Linus is his real name ;)
  • Agree It should be "Benjamin Linus", he is never called "Ben Linus", just "Ben", Benjamin Linus is his full name
  • Comment About the only rename argument on the right track is the one by SFilip above that says "Ben Linus is just as stupid as Sawyer Ford". But even this is not so: Ben is a shortening of Benjamin, so it is only as stupid as the shortening "John Locke", whereas "Sawyer" is not a standard nickname for "James" and so, like "Hurley", deserves to be set apart from the character's full name. The Agrees that make the argument that "Benjamin Linus" should be used because it is a full name or because it is the only version of the full name used by Ben misunderstand the naming convention, which is [Most common given name] [Distinguishing surname]. What is the character's most commonly used given name? Ben. Which Ben? Ben Linus. Robert K S (talk) 16:07, 6 May 2008 (PDT)
    • You're right, but my point was that you hear him referred to "Ben Linus" just as often as you hear Sawyer referred to as "Sawyer Ford" (in other words - never). SFilip 15:25, 10 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree as he regers to himself as Benjamin - Jamesie 05:36, 9 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree He always introduces himself as "Benjamin Linus," and he is referred to by the Freighter people as "Benjamin Linus." Other than that, he's "Ben." When people call him by his full name, it's "Benjamin Linus." Never, EVER "Ben Linus."C.m. 16:04, 9 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Disagree since a redirect is in place, all that is in question is how should the page look. When I made a wiki link from another page, not knowing how it was going to work, I typed Ben Linus as my first try. I realize if this has been going back and forth, it could have equally been wrong. But since people such as myself, do refer to him as Ben Linus, there should be at least a redirect as such. But to spend time arguing this point ad nauseum, is not unlike Seuss' Butter Battle. I'd vote the exact same way, if the question was to change from Benjamine Linus to Ben Linus. The first line clarifies to the reader this discussion. The rest just comes down to wiki-bullying. --Rev Kev 13:52, 10 May 2008 (PDT)
    • Admittedly I am on shaky ground with my stance, I would vote the same to switch from Benjamin to ben, but I did note in the credits listed on imdb.com for the show, the character name is Ben Linus. I may be mistaken, but I understand that cite to be very exacting in their usage, and is not community edited, thus not subjected to the tyranny of majority rules. IMDB --rev kev 16:48, 11 May 2008 (PDT)
  • 'Really the fact that there is any argument at all about this means the policy should be changed to be easier to follow. Although ultimately as long as there are redirects it doesn't matter all that much. --Jackdavinci 18:42, 10 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree - His name is Benjamin Linus. Therefore, the encyclopedic entry for him should be of his full name.--Halcohol 01:41, 13 May 2008 (PDT)
By that logic, shouldn't all character pages be at full names? Like Kate Austen instead at Katherine Anne Austen (surprised there's no redirect there). The site needs to be consistent. I don't know if there's a naming policy somewhere, but the site generally uses the most commonly used name, not the full name for titles. --Minderbinder 08:24, 13 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree. He introduces himself as Benjamin Linus. He does this to Jack in "The Glass Ballerina", and other times. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  12:11, 19 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Disagree - I'm pretty sure Ben's introduced himself as "Ben Linus", but I don't want to bother watching the entire series over again just to take notes. I'd like to comment that I think this is one of the dumbest debates being held on this site. I'd also like to ask if anyone knows how the character is named in the show's credits. --Doc 12:43, 19 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree - In contrast to the point above, I'm sure Benjamin introduces himself as Benjamin Linus - "Hi, my name is Benjamin Linus; and I've lived on this Island all my life". Even at the end of the last episode he said "My name is Benjamin Linus; I believe your looking for me."--4 10:52, 20 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Dont care- It doesnt really matter which it is, because theyre pretty much the same anywayEgg head16 14:20, 21 May 2008 (PDT)
    • Why did you post this, this is irrelevant to whatever should Lostedia rename Ben or not.--Orhan94 14:42, 21 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree No one on the Island knows John as Johnathan (except maybe Alpert, because he was there when he was born and named), or Kate as Katherine, yet everybody encluding himself reffers to him as Benjamin, rarely as Ben.--Orhan94 14:42, 21 May 2008 (PDT)
If you check, I'm sure that Juliette, Jack and Locke have called him Ben many times. They refer to him as Benjamin only when they also use his last name. In other words, he's "Ben" or he's "Benjamin Linus". Regardless, I think it should be whatever is used in the show's credits. --Doc 14:21, 23 May 2008 (PDT)

Birthday

The information box says December 21 and the article says December 20th. Where did we get the information for EITHER date? Meteor

In "The Man Behind the Curtain" we see Ben's birth, birthday as a boy when Annie gives him the dolls, birthday as a young man when he kills his dad, then birthday in the 'present'. He's at the ruins and Alex wishes him a happy birthday, and he also talks with Alpert about birthdays, and reminisces with the doll. So that's how we know when his birthday happened in the show. The actual date will have been discovered through the Timeline - however this has undergone/is undergoing several revisions of late, so that could be why the discrepancy has crept in. Having said that, the timeline currently says his birthday was 19th December, so I really don't know what is right!--TechNic|talk|conts 20:08, 26 April 2008 (PDT)

Sharing candy with Hurley

Are they trying to humanize the hell out of this guy, or what??? I'm finding it very, very hard to dislike Ben these days.C.m. 16:04, 9 May 2008 (PDT)

I found that a very awkward, funny moment in an episode full of violence and tension. I loved it. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  16:51, 11 May 2008 (PDT)

Questions Now Answered

I removed these unanswered questions, because they are answered as of the Season 4 finale.

  1. Is he able to return to the Island at will in the future? No. '(Ben: Whoever moves the Island can never come back)'
  2. Why did Ben ask for the date while in Tunisia? He has the same outfit and the same wound on his arm when he turns the wheel in the Orchid (December 2004) as he has when he appears in Tunisia (October 2005). It's all but spelled out for us that he traveled through time by turning the wheel, but was uncertain at what time he would end up.
  3. How did he arrive in the Sahara? See above. The Orchid's electromagnetic properties transported him through space as well as time.--Wstonefi 12:11, 30 May 2008 (PDT)
  4. Why can't Ben kill Widmore? I don't know which podcast, but it is a fairly recent one that the executive producers state that Ben can't kill Widmore for the same reason Michael could not die... the Island will not let it happen.--Pallacydenial 19:42, 7 June 2008 (PDT)

"Why did he wake up in Tunesia ten months after moving the Island?" The details leave no room for any alternate explanation: moving the Island immediately transported Ben in space and time. The only real question is "What governs where and when the Island transports someone when he moves it?"--but that is not a question for the Ben page. Robert K S (talk) 10:08, 2 June 2008 (PDT)

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