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Other media?

I suggest we remove the entire "Other media"-section, since it has nothing at all to do with Ben. --Noseman 2006 22:51, October 27 2006 (CET)

Diary reference

(Warning: spoiler) ABC.com

Now there's a certain guy who used that certain word... --Jambalaya 17:34, 3 March 2006 (PST)

Well since it is on the official ABC LOST Website, I don't consider it a spoiler - more a teaser...

a teaser that shows us, that Henry Gale might really not be what any of us thought him to be...

...or just something meant to confuse and throw off the theories. If you check the general tone of the writing, it doesn't sound like any of the survivors, more like a certain other, nor does it say what HG is or isn't. Like all of the 'Diary' entries, very vague and doesn't really put any facts on the table.

On a sidenote, I don't see the point with any spoiler warnings as the wiki follows the US showtimes & everything anyone official or unofficial has said or written about the show has always been very vague and generalised. I don't think there ever has been a spoiler about LOST, just a lot of theories and teasers. Spoilers are definitive, and leave no questions.--skks 12:41, 7 March 2006 (PST)

You're both right :-) I added a bullet about it, but I didn't speculate whether it's Desmond or not... --Jambalaya 13:21, 7 March 2006 (PST)

I was actually going for Mr. Friendly judging from the phrase "This is not their island". --skks 13:55, 7 March 2006 (PST)

I have a feeling the diary is not considered canon. The first author, and most of the previous entries by the current author, have only commented on events and ideas already established in the episodes, suggesting the diary's purpose as merely reflective. In any event, there doesn't seem to be a consistency of authorship. My guess is, the writers at the website were recently given some knowledge of the upcoming Henry Gale story arc which they've chosen to inject into their otherwise-useless diary narrator. So while the "brother" reference may bear some fruit, I don't think we'll see the author in the show.

--

I think Desmond's use of the word 'brother' is merely a term of endearment that he has incorporated into his speech (just like Hurley's 'dude') and to be hoenst, it's not that uncommon. On the otherhand, the diary seems to refer to a 'brother' of relation.

As far as I know, the only secret that the diary has revealed is that Eko and Charlie are building a church, and we found this out in S.O.S shortly after anyway. Its probably just written to keep fans interested and developing theories, without giving much away.

--Rayne 09:47, 30 April 2006 (PDT)

I suggest we remove the entire "Other media"-section, since it has been revealed that the diary reference had nothing to do with Henry Gale (other than the fact that he ws being held in the hatch). Noseman 2006 13 August 2006

Diary Update

The newest diary: http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/diary/105434.html changes things a bit. This clearly states that whoever the 'brother' is actually confronts Locke and Jack. Ana-Lucia, perhaps? ~Weez

Trap?

I think that the very reason for Gale mentioning the possibility that he has lead Ana into a trap, and that it could be used to trade for him, is exactly the reason why they will find evidence that he has not been lying.

If he needs to infiltrate the survivors what better way than to set himself up as a victim. Sure they have given him an amazingly rough time and both Jack and Locke realise how manipulative he is but if he can pull this off he might get some sympathy on his side. -- MRNasher

Even if they do find the balloon it does not prove that he is not one of 'them'. Remember, the "others" have apparently added to their ranks by kidnapping crash victims. Maybe he did land by balloon and was kidnapped by the others.

Or he might have just known about the balloon, which someone else crashed in.

My gut feeling is that he's not an other, but that's probably because I've been trained by the show to assume the opposite of where the show is leading us. The first two Gale episodes seemed to suggest that he was one of them, so I assumed therefore he wasn't. --208.204.155.241 09:37, 23 March 2006 (PST)

He's using textbook manipulation. He's using everyone's paranoia against them, suggesting them that the others would want to trap few of the survivors to exchange for him, and when it doesn't happen - he's automatically cleared of the suspicion. In theory atleast, I've lost my respect for Jack & Locke, so they just might fall for it. The Others wouldn't want to exchange him for anyone, he was planted there to get intel, and the only way he can do that is by convincing everyone he's to be trusted. He's piling up the doubts on doubts and backing them up with possibilities, eventually the web of lies will become too much for anyone to sort out and everything seemingly falls into place. It's clearly a plan, waiting few days to give out the map, claiming to be afraid that whoever's looking won't find the planted balloon. If he's who he says he is, within a few months he's crashed onto the island, lost his wife to a mystery illness, caught in a trap, shot with a crossbow and have being locked up in a room and beaten. Still, he's not afraid, he maintains his composure and finds time to push people's buttons. It all just feels too calculated to me. --skks 10:17, 23 March 2006 (PST)

Jack and Locke should be painfully aware that if they others wanted a hostage to exchange for Gale, they'd come and grab someone, no need to send people on a wild balloon chase, of course I agree that they just might fall for it with the way they've been behaving lately. I think Gale is manipulating the viewer more so than the people on the island. The speech about Ana Lucia & Co falling into a trap seemed designed only to make the viewer go Oh Sh*$! Jack and Locke barely reacted to it. --208.204.155.241 10:48, 23 March 2006 (PST)

They did react to it, especially Jack. Ofcourse this is newer info than the previous comment as the scene continued in Lockdown. --skks 04:36, 30 March 2006 (PST)

I think Gale is manipulating the viewer more so than the people on the island. <--From a couple paragraphs above...
BINGO! I think you're onto something here! The show is itself a type of Skinner box. They are "experimenting" on us, the viewers. Putting us all in a little box on Wednesday night to see how we will react to certain situations! Genious! :)--Stew Erickson 06:31, 6 April 2006 (PDT)

Driver's license discrepancies

Yes, it's a fake, it's from a tv show. The discrepancies could be because of legal issues. There's no 555 area code either, but every phone number in a tv-show still has that. --skks 04:53, 30 March 2006 (PST)

Did Henry recognize the numbers?

After Locke told Henry the numbers once very slowly, Henry rattled them back to him like he had said them a hundred times. Do you think that he's familiar with them? --BigSteve777 08:50, 30 March 2006 (PST)

Well they seem to be written all over the hatch, and maybe even the island, so that might explain it. --Uth 12:12, 30 March 2006 (PST)

Considering the accuracy and precision that he spit out the stats of the balloon, maybe he has a photographic memory?--Tricksterson 09:36, 31 March 2006 (PST)

I think he knew the numbers. Maybe even knew them from before the island. Perhaps the numbers led him to the island? --Admin 09:42, 31 March 2006 (PST)

Don't forget that Hurley discovered the numbers written 7 times on the documents that Said liberated from Danielle Rousseau, and that Rousseau revealed to Hurley that they had been broadcast repeatedly when she arrived on the Island. So, the Others likely at least knew about the numbers via the transmission, if they indeed weren't responsible for them. --Immanuel k 22:10, 4 August 2006 (PDT)

It's hard to say. It's quite likely that Benjamin knew the numbers beforehand, but I also get the feeling he's a bit of an evil uber-genius, which might include a photographic memory. I suspect Ben's intellectual powers are great indeed. C.m.

Did 'HG' push the button?

Although he claims he did, we don't hear him. We hear the engines powering up indicating that time ran out. HG's states that he:

1. pushed the button
2. counter reset to 108.00
3. tried to climb back in the vent
4. lights went out
5. blast doors open

Yet the chronology shown on screen is:

1. timer ran out, engine powered up
2. lights went out
3. counter reset
4. blast doors open

--Uth 12:46, 30 March 2006 (PST)

• Another interesting thing is that the preview for next week shows the counter set at 215. Could Gale have entered some other, unknown to the Flight 815 survivors, code that caused the lockdown? Maybe the lockdown didn't happen because the numbers didn't get entered in time. It happened because Gale entered a different code. Maybe we still don't know what happens when the numbers don't get entered in time!--Stew Erickson 06:37, 6 April 2006 (PDT)

He pushed the button because unless I missed something metal object didn't started to fly to the magnet thing--CaptainInsano

In the swan orientation, it says that there are strange electromagnetic fluctuations. Perhaps Henry didn't enter the code, but it was at a time of low electromagnetic activity, and the timer reset itself. Jimbot87 22:29, 22 July 2006 (PDT)

Maybe the system resets itself automatically during a Lockdown period, and he didn't push the button like he said. --Bob Kelsey 07:48, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

What I don't get is that how did the blast door come down in the first place. I remember that Kelvin and Desmond could make the doors come down, though they were no where near the Hatch when the doors came down.Strange. Sincerely--Jigsaw 07:47, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

Kelvin says the russian dude, learnt to FAKE a lockdown, so the lockdown may have been automatic, coinciding with the drop. the others could have initiated the lockdown to help henry escape, or communicate with the others - Mikey - "so emo, it hurts"©

Henry says this: "I crawled through your vents and I stood at your computer as the alarm beeped. And you know what happened? The timer went all the way down to zero, and then some funny red pictures flipped up in its place. They looked like hieroglyphics, but I'm no expert. And then things got real interesting. There was a loud clunking and a hum like a magnet -- a big magnet. It was really very frightening." So i thing Henry know that what happened when you don't push the button or he know what is about the Swan. --AvArO CrAsH 21:23, 19 August 2006 (PDT)

• Or it simply means he waited as long as he dared to (to see what would happen) before he entered the numbers. Because things did happen, no doubt about it. Henry had a reason for letting himself get captured and be brought to the Swan - and the pushing of the button (or things closly related to the pushing) seems to have a lot to do with that reason. Noseman 2006, 20 August 2006
• No is that what i am talk in about, my point was how does he know that there was a magnet, because i don have in my kwoledge how it sound a magnet. --AvArO CrAsH 17:26, 21 August 2006 (PDT)

I think this section needs to be seriously edited. The episode "Lockdown" (that shows Locke being trapped under the blast door and Ben (Henry Gale) goes through the ceiling panel to push the button) was first broadcast on 29 March 2006. Then it was not until 24 May 2006 that the episode "Live Together, Die Alone" was broadcast, which shows Locke destroying the computer and Desmond using the fail safe key to destroy the Swan. It was between those two episodes that this section was created and most of the conjecture of whether Ben actually pushed the button or not was discussed. It is now pretty much canon that Ben must have indeed pushed the button, even though he said he did not. If he had not pushed the button, then there would have been the same chain of events that would have occurred that happens later when we see the results of Lockes' destroying the computer and the electromagnetic energy creates chaos. So it is probably fairly safe to say that Ben lied - he did push the button. ~~Saukkomies 13:44 19 February 2006

Split article?

Based on what happened in Lockdown, should we split this article into "Henry Gale (real)" and "Henry Gale (fake)" or something? And just rename "Henry Gale (fake)" when we learn his name? --Jambalaya 08:51, 31 March 2006 (PST)

At this point, I don't think it's necessary as the Real McGale's article would be really stubby, if/when we find out more about him, then maybe. Renaming the article is an idea though, I guess the hard part would be to think up a name. Maybe next week when we hopefully know more about the guy. --skks 11:50, 31 March 2006 (PST)

Agree. We don't know his name or anything yet. If we know some name we can give him, we should change this article and Put up a page for the real Henry Gale (I doubt we'll learn more about him) with a bold link to the fake Henry Gale. If we do that, we have to clean up all articles that mention Henry Gale, or make it really clear on the new Henry Gale article, that for most of the show yet, someone else was using that name. --aurora glacialis 12:13, 1 April 2006 (PST)

Most of the HG article is speculation anyway, that will be come irrelevant as more is known about him. --Uth 17:30, 1 April 2006 (PST)

Speaking of that - I don't like that "Information-Set" structure. It's geek-talk but the articles should be understandable for everyone! Tooke me some moments to just get what that notation meant. And I don't thnik, the statistics of the balloon are really that interesting anymoe. Mayve split off to another article on the Baloon? --aurora glacialis 01:09, 7 April 2006 (PDT)

The article is bloated, a split or splits at this point wouldn't be a bad thing. Tried to make some more sense to it, but it gets complicated fex when one needs to refer to the note etc. An article for the real henry gale or hg's wallet would make referrals a lot easier. Changed the information set structure a bit, also removed the 'proven false' mentionings as one should get the idea when the stories conflict with eachother. There's too many things I did to list them all, check the diff if you're interested. I'm sure someone who likes the old one better will just revert without even talking about it, thusly making the 20 minutes I spent on it seem completely useless. Oh well. --skks 06:36, 14 April 2006 (PDT)

Magnets

I dont have access to it right now so if someone else could confirm this for me before I put it on the article page that would be great but here goes:

Im absolutely certain that when Henry is describing to Locke what happened when he entered the numbers (in the lockdown episode), he says that he saw the heiroglyphics and that there was a noise "like a big magnet".

Why would he describe the noise as sounding like a magnet unless he knew that that is what it was? We know that something fishy is going on with magnets (the thing that Jack was wearing round his neck got attracted to one), but I dont recall Henry ever being told about this or Henry seeing it in anything that we have seen.

So I'd like to think that somewhere there is a big magnet that gets moved around (and thats the noise we heard) when the countdown runs to zero, normally if someone that didnt know what it was was describing it they would describe it as a noise or as machinery but to describe it as a magnet kinda implies that you know that that is what it is. Afterall a magnet makes no different a sound to any other lump of metal grinding around. --TimmyWimmy 15:40, 18 April 2006 (PDT)

Mercury

An interesting thought that occurred to me;

"Henry"'s initials are, obviously, HG. Hg is the chemical symbol for mercury, which in the mythological sense of the word is regarded as the messenger of the gods. Perhaps an intentional reference, seeing as "Henry" is a messenger of sorts for the others? kaini 12:13, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

No. Far too obscure. --Draic 06:43, 2 May 2006 (PDT)

I don't think that that is necessarily too obscure. It's likely a coincidence, but fun to consider, regardless. --Cleast 12:49, 31 May 2006 (PDT)

Henry Gale was the actual name of the balloonist, and Ben was just borrowing it. Why he chose to borrow it is unkown, but to tie HG = Mercury into trying to portray Ben as a messenger for the Others is really stretching things, I think. If this was the case, then the real messenger would have been the real Henry Gale, who was buried next to the balloon. Or maybe I'm being too much of a literalist... ~~Saukkomies 13:51 19 February 2007

Henry Gale/ Medical Hatch??

The page mentions a "picture montage" that shows Henry Gale as similar to one of the doctors in the Medical Hatch. Could someone link us to this picture or upload it? It seems an interesting line to go on, since it doesn't look like Henry has any medical skills when he's in the custody of Jack and John.--Charugan 18:53, 19 April 2006 (PDT)

Here's a link to the picture in debate [1] Actually looks a little to me like Henry and Kate and maybe Bernard & Ana Lucia. If so is it intentional or did they forget to hire extras? --BigSteve777 06:02, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

Henry knows who Walt is?

This page says Henry "Knows who Walt is and says that 'they' would never trade Walt for him." Is this true? Jack says in front of Henry that they're going to trade him for Walt. Henry didn't mention Walt's name until after Jack did. So we do not know that Henry even knows who Walt is. Henry may not have even known that 'they' had captured any of the LOSTies. Henry is smart enough to just parrot back Walt's name and say Oh, they'll never make a trade. Snarf 08:19, 19 May 2006 (PDT)

Henry = Him

I think it's pretty safe to say that Henry is Him, Zeke seemed pretty intimidated by him and he had no physical part in the capture of the 4 people, hinting that he is the puppetmaster.        talk contribs                   04:39, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I have to disagree with this most strenuously. Gale may very well be the "leader" of those *on* the island, but his fear of "him" seems genuine. It's very possible that they have contact with people off the Island, so "him" very possibly could be some as-yet unknown agent ultimately calling the shots. Absalom 05:12, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Yes, I agree Henry might be the Leader of one group of others but not the whole thing.

My reasons why Henry is not Him:

1. He seemed genuinely afraid that he would be punished for failing on his mission by Him.
2. If he were Him, he would not have been travelling alone and would not have been captured by Rousseau's trap. Even if he had been captured, if he were their leader, the Others would have released him from the trap.
3. If he were the leader, the Others would have tried much harder to get him out of the Hatch.

If Henry's fear of Him was so genuine, then why did he run right back to join the others when Micheal freed him? He told Locke that he would be killed for failing by the unforgiving "Him". Also Mrs. Klugh said that the Others were not able/or not allowed to free Gale. --Uth 17:22, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Henry is clearly a higher-up; I'll give him second or third in command or maybe the voice of Him to the rest of the Others, but not Him himself. -Platypus Man | Talk 05:25, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

But what if he got captured on purpose? And as for him being scared of "Him", I think thats irrelevant, as pretty much every word out of his mouth is a lie.--Piscez 06:12, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

This is true, but the discussion is if we can say with authority that Gale is "him." I certainly think it is a strong theory, but it is far from a certainty. Thus, articles should not be merged. Absalom 06:15, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

And to play devil's advocate, all Henry's talk of being punished or scared of "Him" while in the hatch could have been an act or just an outright lie. Henry lied extensively while in captivity (i.e. he told Locke that he didn't push the button... that the button is a joke. Obviously he did push the button). If he is Him there is no reason he couldn't travel alone. It could be indicative of his (and the rest of the Others) confidence in their dominance of the island, or just a desire to move inconspicuously. I think the fact that they were willing to give up Walt to get Henry back (which Henry indicated he/they were not happy about) shows his great value and runs counter to Henry's assertion in the Hatch that they would never trade Walt for him. Henry is the best candidate for Him right now, but I wouldn't declare it as fact just yet. He's obviously a big Kahuna... but until it is proven he is at the top of the food chain I'd leave the connection between Henry and Him as speculation.--Isotope23 05:37, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I vote no merge at this time. I'm not convinced Henry is Him. Henry obviously seems to have some power in the organization as indicated by his leadership role on the dock, and the fact that the Others gave up Walt to rescue him, but it's not really clear he's the head honcho. I'd leave it as a theory until there's confirmation. --Elvis 09:08, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I Think he is Him and his stint in the castaways custody was his reenactment of Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects but until definitive proof comes about I say leave them unmerged.--Tricksterson 09:44, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I feel that Henry Gale is definitely not Him but he is Someone of importance. Leader of that specific camp or collection of people. Plus, someone who is spoke of with such power probably wouldn't be out in the field doing the dirty work. That's why he has people like Henry Gale doing it for him.--kcnovA23 13:43, 25 May 2006 (EDT)

I don't think we can say for sure if the man who posed himself as Henry Gale is "Him." Although it is mostly likely at this point. I think that it is important to stop calling him Henry Gale because it has become confusing and incorect. The articles about this man and "him" should be linked but not one and the same. However the article currently tittled Henry Gale should be changed. Possible changes could be Henry Gale (Imposter); The Other's Leader; Leader of the "Good Guys"; Former Prisoner.... --Jules 11:04, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

I think it's a little too soon to assume Henry Gale is Him. No merge. MaxVeers 18:26, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

There's no reason he would tell them about "Him" in such a fearful manner if he really was "Him". I naysay the merge. Zombiebomb 18:36, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Not enough evidence to suggest Henry is Him - questions regarding Alvar Hanso have not yet been answered (the person thought most likely to be Him) and thus we should wait. - Adam 09:28, 26 May 2006 (GMT)

This discussion should likely be revisited in light of the season 3 premeire. In particular, Tom's quote "He's waiting for you" seems to be a blatant admission that Ben is Him (Tom didn't say "The man you know as HG is..." or "Someone is...", he used the same loaded emphasis on the pronoun that's been used every time He's been mentioned previously). --Tapin 12:18, 5 October 2006 (PDT)

I'd agree. I don't know if the show will ever come out and say Ben is Him, but it seems like they're making it very obvious, especially after the clip show said "they were taken to see their leader" while showing Ben onscreen. --Minderbinder 13:33, 5 October 2006 (PDT)

• It should also be noted that Ben is actually the original "him", the one Tom talks about in "Maternity Leave". So unless there is more than one "him", the original Him is most certainly Ben, since he was the one who asked for the list of names. --Sauron18 13:20, 22 October 2006 (PDT)

I completely disagree, there is too much symbolic evidence that Ben is just a "security" type of guy in the system, and that the survivors need to be vetted / survive him before they can move onto the next part of the system. --11:14, 3 November 2006 (PST)

More than they bargianed for?

"Mentions that Michael's trade was "more than we bargained for", perhaps implying that it won't be too dissapointing for them to lose walt and the boat to Michael in the trade."

If memory serves, this is not what he said. He said that he was not happy with the arrangement, but that they got more than they bargained for when walt joined them, so perhaps this was best. I interpreted this as meaning that Walt was so useful to their purpose (whatever that is) that it was ok to let him go now.

• I interpretted it to mean that Walt was almost more trouble than he was worth to the Others

Maybe this meant that the benefits of having Jack, Kate and Sawyer outweighed the benefits of having Walt? Adam 09:30, 26 May 2006 (GMT)

"im not happy about the arangement that was made with you michael, but, we got more than we bargained for when walt joined us so i suppose this is what's best." - Henry Gale - - Mikey - "so emo, it hurts"© 08:24, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

Henry pressing the button

Why'd he lie? He obviously knew what would happen if the button wasn't pressed, because he did press it. But then he lied about it to Locke... it doesn't exactly make sense. He, and the rest of the Others, seemed wholly unsurprised by what happened during the flash (but we don't really know if that was caused by the button not being pushed or the key being turned, though it is assumed that it's the key). I don't even know how to start guessing at what this means. :\ --Cajuncook 10:24, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

i think henry likes locke, even after what the losties did to him, he realized that locke was just trying to figure the island out, not hurting anybody or anything but didn;t belong with the others because of his temper. so i thin k henry left it to locke to decide does the button get pressed or doesn't it, so the man of faith can see the reality of the island.       talk contribs                   12:07, 25 May 2006 (PDT)

Well, what would normally be likely to happen if Locke didn't push the button? Well, first the hieroglyphics would come up. Then all the loudspeakers in the hatch would start blaring "System Failure." At this point Locke would realize Henry had lied. Then the electromagnetic effects would start happening, and chances are Locke would do the same thing as Desmond, frantically try to get the system to re-engage. Provided things weren't too far gone, the system would re-engage and everything goes back to normal, except that the electromagnetic effect might have brought some more victims to the Island. Probably, that's what Henry was expecting. However, due to his conflict with Eko and later Desmond, this is not how things played out. Locke destroyed the computer when it was too late to fix it in order to stop the electromagnetic effect. So, Henry's gamble didn't pay off quite the way he was expecting.--Inquisitor 06:53, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

I have been pondering this question too. Do we know if the Others and Fake Henery Gale are from Dharma? Yea, I know they are doing experiments in Dharma hatches. But could they have somehow taken over the Island. We don't know that something happend when Alvar most likely died in 2002. Maybe Fake Henry Gale just wanted to mess with Locke not knowing what would happen.--Jules 08:02, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

Well, I just assumed he knew more than he was telling because he knew about the "funny red pictures" that came up if you didn't push the button. It's possible that they were already starting to come up by the time he had gotten to the computer, but I just figured that he knew more than he implied.--Inquisitor 09:38, 26 May 2006 (PDT)

We do know from Lockdown that the countdown ran out and the machines started powering up. So it's likely Gale saw the hieroglyphs. I also think it's possible that The Others don't really know what that button is for.

Alvar Hanso?

Have you guys noticed in the season finale Henry Gale stood and posed just as Alvar Hanso did in the Swan Orientation Film? --    Nusentinsaino     talk    contribs    email  

I noticed that too, but I think the producers did that to make us think he is Alvar Hanso when he is not. --CaptainInsano

i think it is impossible to say that alvar hanso looks like anyone..we only have one very msall grainy photo to go by... - Mikey - "so emo, it hurts"© 08:18, 27 May 2006 (PDT)

The Leader

Who would of thought that Henry Gale was the leader of The Others, I have to say that suprised me the most. That why he knew a lot about The Others and why they wouldn't trade them Walt. Sincerely--Jigsaw 07:40, 1 June 2006 (PDT)

Speculation

• Whispers "We're scientists" twice to Ana-Lucia while she is going on about how much killers love to talk.
• They know a "system failure" crashed Oceanic Flight 815, and they want to cause another crash (e.g. for more recruits).
• Henry's appearance and entire captivity are part of the "experiment" and were intended to see how the Hatch group would react.
• He is The Monster.
• Is actually Radzinsky.
• Had visions like Desmond did.

The idea came from a movie called "Paycheck" about a Reverse Engineer that builds a machine that can see the future (he uses it to escape). The machine has a tendency to create self-fulling prophecies. The machine predicts a plague, the government herds people together that would get infected creating the plague. The machine predicts a war, they attack the country and end up going to war.

Ben saw the future, knew that a group of survivors would reveal the island's location to aother group of people who would end up killing them all. When the plane crash occurred, Ben did everything in his power to prevent them from seeking rescue (which would explain why Ben didn't appear surprised). What took place over the course of three months was a self-fulling prophecy.

A group of survivors crash on the island and seek rescue, which leads to the island's destruction. Knowing this, Ben uses lies, fear and brute force to try and stop the survivors. This only further strengthens the resolve of the survivors to escape. Ben's last-ditch effort was to take hostages and try to trade them for the Sat-phone; he knew it might fail, but had to try. In the end, he fails. The same situation could be the case with Alex; he treated Karl in the manner he did because he knew that Alex would get pregnant and die, but it backfires on him to a degree. He saves her life, but drives her away.

"bon voyage, Michael"....

..........this are the last words that fenry said to michael...

"bon voyage" is a great alfred hitchcock film..... you could read about it in wikipedia:

Bon Voyage is a 1944 French language propaganda short film made by Alfred Hitchcock for the British Ministry of Information. It depicts the escape of a downed RAF pilot through German-occupied territory. Although the film is short (26 minutes) and generally only of interest to Hitchcock completists, it is interesting for its use of multiple viewpoints of the same events, a technique not unlike that used by Kurosawa in Rashomon.

.........i supouse there are conected the ideas..because lost has this kind of multiple viewpoints of the same events.... and the escape of a occupied territory.... etc etc..

When we find out his real name...

When we are told what "Henry Gale"'s real name is, is this article just going to be moved to that name? And if so, will the Henry Gale (original) article take this article's place? Or will it simply become a redirect link to "Henry Gale"'s actual name? --SilvaStorm

Probably.--CaptainInsano

It will be a major pain, but yes, I think that's what we'll do. If anyone wants to help prepare, you can change any links to [[Henry Gale]] that are supposed to go to the Other leader to [[Henry Gale (fake)]] - that way we can find them more easily to change & redirect. But I imagine we want to keep all the links that use his name from Season 2 as Henry, not RealName. Damn you, producers! --Jajasoon 08:07, 13 August 2006 (PDT)

Okay, this is getting confusing... we need to decide on something soon, or else. --SilvaStorm

Here's my proposal for how to lay out pages when we learn what fake Henry Gale's real name is:

• Move "Henry Gale" to the new name ("Kirk Soren" is my guess).
• Create a disambiguation page on "Henry Gale", pointing to the real "Henry Gale" and to "Kirk Soren".

I believe this plan will help direct everyone to the content they want to read. —XSG 11:59, 15 August 2006 (PDT)

We could have it so that searching for 'Henry Gale' takes you to the Henry Gale (original) page, and have a link at the top to take you to the 'Kirk Soren' (or whatever it is) page. How does that sound? Remember, Tom's page is titled 'Tom (Mr. Friendly)' so maybe we'll need the faux Henry Gale's page to be titled 'Kirk Soren ("Henry Gale")'. --SilvaStorm

Only today have I seen a post by Chris about changing the links on pages, from Henry Gale to Fake Henry Gale (this one already exists, and is a redirect page to the first, while the identity is not known). Thus, when we learn the real identity of the impostor, it will be very easy to copy the content of Henry Gale to Fake Henry Gale (destroying the redirect), and the page Henry Gale will be a disambiguation page... A little change to this would be to create a new page with the title for the real identity, and the Fake Henry Gale would redirect to this one... The page Henry Gale would become a disambiguation page. (The)Batmagoo(BatmanMagoo) 12:58, 8 September 2006 (PDT)

"Man of illusion"? Certainly. But Illusion of what?

The Other's article states that Henry Gale is a man of illusion. but what kind of illusion? There is already an article on has only been spoken of byHim. "Him" has only been mentioned by two people: Tom and Henry. They both speak of him as if he seems to have authority. Henry states that he will be killed by the others because "Heis a brilliant man, but an unforgiving man". Yet as he appears in the tugboat he orders everyone around as if he has some strong place in the other's hierarchy. Tom's statement is known to not be fake, as he was talking to Ethan. Obviously we can know from that that there is a definite leader. But what about Henry's statement? Can we trust him? Is he truly a man of illusion? is he actually Him and only trying to give Locke false info? Until we know the answer to this, I believe Him should be be merged with Henry Gale. Thoughts? » Will630

20 Dollar Note

Should this be deleted from this page? It really has nothing to do with this Henry Gale, only the real one --Marik7772003 17:19, 7 September 2006 (PDT)

I could see why it would be removed, but I can also see why it is on here.--CaptainInsano 17:59, 7 September 2006 (PDT)

I think it should be at least moved to a subsection, or just listed under trivia. I made this change a few days ago, but someone brought it back.

I removed this section. It's not relevant anymore, now that we know a lot more about Ben. Plus, it's got its own page. --Ghtx 11:27, 13 October 2006 (PDT)

How about the "Other Media" section? It seems just as irrelevant. --Doc 11:31, 13 October 2006 (PDT)

Real Name

Anyone at Sunset on the Beach to catch his real name? --Marik7772003 18:00, 1 October 2006 (PDT)

• Never mind, I found it out. But I'm not gonna post here because its a spoiler. --Marik7772003 18:16, 1 October 2006 (PDT)

Archive

This page is getting too long, it really needs an archive. --Marik7772003 18:00, 1 October 2006 (PDT)

Yeah, NO KIDDING! I've been looking at the sections in this page, and it's like: where to begin? About 80% of this stuff has been either proven or disproven by substantiated canon. It's actually difficult to weed out the relevant stuff that is worth talking about in this page because of all the irrelevant material that needs to be weeded out. ~~Saukkomies 14:03 19 February 2007

Ben

This article needs to be edited so much now, after the last episode, it's almost daunting. I can help but the task is too great for one man alone. ;)

How very cool :) I was making a bet with myself over how long it would take you guys to rename him Ben... and there the redirect was... for once, no pointless arguing :)

--PandoraX 20:07, 4 October 2006 (PDT)

Well I did originally say that it would stay named that way until his real name was determined. The Henry Gale redirect needs to stay pointed to this page rather than the original Henry Gale. --   Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 20:13, 4 October 2006 (PDT)

The section on the Diary seems completely irrelevant. Also the parts on the Wizard of Oz and the $20 bill seem highly tangential, especially considering that they have articles of their own. --Doc 08:43, 5 October 2006 (PDT)

Dostoevsky

After reading this article one thing stands out - I think Ben really hates Dostoevsky. --Doc 07:15, 5 October 2006 (PDT)

• Ha, Ben-ry hates him enough to apparently lie about how he likes Stephen King (if the book club conversation is to be believed)?

• I don't think he ever said he doesn't like Stephen King. He just hates one spacific book by him. I also disliked Carrie, despite my adoration for King's writing, it was among his earliest novels and let's face it. It comes nowhere close to The Stand, It, or The Green Mile.--Mighty Rearranger 13:44, 5 October 2006 (PDT)
• I think it's more a case that Ben likes King better than Dostoevsky, but then again he likes everything better than Dostoevsky. So even if he hates King, he hates Dostoevsky more. --Doc 13:57, 5 October 2006 (PDT)
  • Or, Adam was wrong about Ben's tastes in literature.JoserKyind 14:30, 5 October 2006 (PDT)

Disambiguation Page- Now Changed

I personally think that this should be a Disambig page, to Henry Gale (Original) and Ben. It would be more... Accurate, i suppose.--NotARedHerring 14:13, 5 October 2006 (PDT)

I disagree. The link at the top of this page to the Henry Gale (original) page is sufficient. Also, ABC still credits Michael Emerson as "Henry Gale". Also, none of the losties actually know that Henry's real name is Ben, so it's likely they will keep up the act. --   Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 14:20, 5 October 2006 (PDT)

I guess ABC use "Henry Gale" in their press releases in order not to disclose his real name before airing. Don't rule out that ABC in the near future will start refering to Michael Emerson as "Ben" instead. --Jambalaya 16:59, 5 October 2006 (PDT)

Now that his full name is out, I think the disambig page can be made -- Paladine<c.t> 19:20, 11 October 2006 (PDT)

• I strongly agree with NotARedHerring, Henry Gale should be a disambiguation page. Disambiguation pages are made specifically for cases where there is name confusion, and thus this is a perfect example of two characters who once used the same name (this one, falsely). I have often linked Henry Gale when refering to the real one, forgetting to use the (original) part. If anything Henry Gale should go to the guy who was really named it (the black man from MN), now that the real name is known for Ben. I suspect that after Season 3, everyone will just call him "Ben" or "Benry". --PandoraX 10:58, 6 October 2006 (PDT)
• I think it should be a disambiguation page, Henry is a disambiguation page, Henry Gale should be too Paladine 18:36, 6 October 2006 (PDT)

• Surely Henry Gale should be a disambiguation page rather than redirecting to the Ben article? A disambiguation page also educates the user about the differences far quicker. -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  18:30, 6 October 2006 (PDT)
• I agree there is no reason that the Henry Gale page should go to the actual Henry since Ben's identity will soon become common knowledge -- added by Wilsbadkarma 22:17, 11 October 2006 (EDT)
• Once we know for certain his last name, a disambiguation page should be created, with links to "Henry Gale" and "Ben Linus" - that way, anyone who looks for HG can find the right person, without many spoilers if they don't know. Joelvanatta 19:30, 11 October 2006 (PDT)
• His full name is revelaed, second time in two eps, so why not fix everything? Let Henry Gale take you to the actual guy, Ben and Benjamin to Benjamin Linus since its his full name and best wiki attitude would be to keep things as formal as possible Hudd ^talk_contrib 19:41, 11 October 2006 (PDT)
  • I don't think Henry Gale should go directly to the original, just a disambig page -- Paladine<c.t> 19:42, 11 October 2006 (PDT)
    • Yeah I think that would be better.. just in case Hudd ^talk_contrib 19:47, 11 October 2006 (PDT)

• Looks like the overwhelming consensus here is for it to go to a disambig page first, so I made one at Henry Gale. Either way, it doesn't hurt to have more clarification. I still left the first line at the top for both separate pages.--PandoraX 04:50, 27 October 2006 (PDT)

Last name woohoo!

• Wohoo article change.... --PandoraX 19:09, 11 October 2006 (PDT)
• Could it have anything with Benjamim Spock and Linus Pauling, who were pacifists, among other things? Joelvanatta 19:21, 11 October 2006 (PDT)
• I second the title change...though when I thought about his last name, I either thought Linus from Peanuts, or Linus Torvalds. --Carodeluxe 19:34, 11 October 2006 (PDT)
• Third for title change. If he's been on the island his entire life, his last name had to have derived from somewhere, i.e. birth parents who were also on the island, or did he adopt the name from somewhere when he'd grown old enough to do so? --Brother 19:36, 11 October 2006 (PDT)
• Has anyone Googled "Benjamin Linus" to come up with that Hanso Adoption page, and another page where HansoAir is sued by Mack, on the ground that their "Artificial Intelligence Piloting System" failed or something? Is any of this official or is it some wacky liberties taken by web users? --Brother 18:14, 12 October 2006 (PDT)
  • Just for fun: an angram for Benjamin Linus is: us nimble ninja -- ^C¯ _Santa_ ¯^T18:40, 12 October 2006 (PDT)
• We need to make pages or at least stubs for each identity reference to Ben. I believe we still have Linus van Pelt to do and one other name reference. -- Freebert248 09:37, 20 October 2006 (PDT)
  
• QUESTION: If he's lived on the island his whole life, what the heck does he need a last name for?--Moo 10:02, 26 October 2006 (PDT)
  • Assuming his parents had a last name, he would certainly know what it was, right? --Minderbinder 10:17, 26 October 2006 (PDT)

Hyperopia

Why was that bit removed? May be pointless to note it, but who knows what's marginal and what's not in the case of Lost? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Waux Trident (talk • contribs) .

We don't know that he has hyperopia. If anything, if he's wearing glasses while looking at monitors, that would imply he's nearsided, not farsighted. But we don't even know that for sure. Seeing him with glasses on tells us he wears glasses, nothing more. --Minderbinder 09:46, 16 October 2006 (PDT)

No, he wouldn't necessarily be nearsighted to be wearing glasses when looking at monitors. I'm farsighted (presbyopia), I wear glasses, and I look at computer monitors all day. My wife is very nearsighted (myopia) and needs glasses to clearly see anything more than 4 inches from her nose. The diagnosis of hyperopia is impossible to make from looking at the character, and there are a number of different conditions that could lead him to need or want glasses for reading. Therefore the note that he uses glasses is appropriate, but conjecture about the reason he does so is not. --Doc 09:58, 16 October 2006 (PDT)

• Sitting and watching close-ups of monitors for extended periods of time can damage eyesight. Doctors sometimes prescribe glasses to prevent this. Anecdotally, my vision isn't very bad but I wear my prescription glasses for driving and watching television. --Moo 10:08, 26 October 2006 (PDT)

Airport TSA

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Linus the guy wanding down Jack at the TSA checkpoint at the airport in Locke's sweat lodge hallucination?

It's kind of choppy there, and quick, but for some reason the camera follows the 'wander' down instead of concentrating on Jack whenever the 'wander' checks Jack's legs. Haircut looks the same. Nose is the same...

Was Linus at the airport prior to the plane's takeoff or is that part of Locke's hallucination about Jack and them being in Linus' control? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kory (talk • contribs) .

The whole scene was an hallucination based on the airport. none off it was a flashback.

For example

• Jin and Sun are arguing with Sayid with him. Whereas in the actual airport she was being quiet, and trying to sneak away.
• Charlie, Claire and Aaron are together. Aaron wasn't born, and Charlie and Claire didn't meet till they got to the Island.
• Sawyer and Kate are together and flirting outrageously
• Ben is checking Jack out as the airport security with a wand.
• Hurley is working behind the check-in counter.

It was supposed to be a reflection of the situations they all found themselves in at the time. It had nothing to do with the actual pre-take off. -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  11:44, 21 October 2006 (PDT)

Henry Gale name reference

Does the section called "Henry Gale: Wizard of Oz" need to be here? Isn't that a remnant from the time when we didn't know Ben's name? --Jambalaya 05:49, 27 October 2006 (PDT)

It should remain. The fact that he took on that name as an alias is meaningful. --Tigerlily 10:29, 12 November 2006 (PST)

Unlock, por favor?

It would be useful to be able to edit the Henry Gale disambiguation page to be able to conform its formatting with disambig MoS. Can it be safely unlocked yet? Robert K S 06:19, 2 November 2006 (PST)

"Manifestation of the monster"?

Come on, why? Can't we give reasoning behind these wild speculations, at least once in awhile? --Amberjet11 12:58, 8 November 2006 (PST)

• As seen in the theories section of the Lostpedia page for the episode The Cost of Living, the basis for this speculation is a sound effect consistent with those used for the monster which can be clearly heard during a scene between Ben and Jack on Hydra Island. --Madhank 12:33, 6 December 2006 (PST)

Spinal Tumor

I only see one instance in this wiki that talks about why Benjamin's tumor isn't as easily healed as Rose's cancer or Locke's paralysis. Has anyone offered their theories on why he seems to be the only one falling victim to an ailment the island system appears capable of healing? --Brother 12:58, 16 January 2007 (PST)

• Might have something to do with his being on the island '[his] entire life'. Somehow, immune to it's effects? Or, perhaps, it could only slow the progression for him?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by B-Field (talk • contribs) .

Other's Protocol

Is apears to me that Benjamin, 3 days after hearing that he had a spinal tumor would send his only surgen, Ethan on a quest to find out if anyone survived the airplane crash. --User:Freelancer91 08:20, 11 April 2007 (PDT)

New Promotional Picture

Most of the characters got new promotional pictures. Which picture should be displayed on Ben's page - the old one or the new one? Obi-Dan Kenobi 15:45, 16 January 2007 (PST)

Old

New

I like old but I don't think it really matters--Mr.Leaf 16:15, 16 January 2007 (PST)

Out with the old, in with the new, everyone else's picture seems to change after each season. Why should this one be any different?--Mr. Crabby 16:21, 16 January 2007 (PST)

I like the new one better. --Blueeagleislander 16:48, 16 January 2007 (PST)

I think the old one is a lot better. --Sauron18 14:18, 20 January 2007 (PST)

• I like the old one too, but also think there are better things to be arguing about. :) --PandoraX 14:50, 20 January 2007 (PST)
  

• • Still, as long as we are on the subject, we might as well choose one. --Sauron18 21:29, 22 February 2007 (PST)
    • So, yeah, I really think the first one is much better, he looks more threatening and more "in charge" than on the second one, mainly because of the darker more mysterious background, the more "leader-like" pose and the spiky hair. --Sauron18 13:35, 24 February 2007 (PST)
• Old one for reasons above BETTYFIZZW (Talk) 15:24, 24 February 2007 (PST)
  • That makes it more for the old than the new, so unless anyone objects I'll change it in a while. --Sauron18 18:00, 1 March 2007 (PST)

Rewrite

• I've just been rewriting the Season 3 part; it was ridiculously short and barely touched on most important points. It's not quite finished yet; I have "The Cost of Living" and "I Do" to do tomorrow :D --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  12:06, 6 February 2007 (PST)

Change Layout?

Hey just wanted to know how other users felt about this. Basically at the moment we have the layout as follows.

• Season 2 - As prisoner, As other
• Season 3 - just text, starting with things that happened before Season 2, then suddenly skipping 72 days later.

I was wondering if anybody thought that the page would look better as a:

• Before the crash
• After the crash

..Kind of page? --Lewis-Talk-Contribs 11:27, 24 February 2007 (PST)

Here's what I think it should be:

• Before the Crash
• Season 2 - As a prisoner, As an Other
• Season 3

What does everyone else think? --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 11:30, 24 February 2007 (PST)

I agree - the layout right now is so clumsly looking. - DrummerGirl 15:42, 10 May 2007 (BST)