Talk:Ben Linus/Archive 2
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Ben/Juliet info from promo - spoiler alert warning at the very least?
Having just been spoiled on this little tidbit thanks to this article, I strongly feel the need to inquire whether such bits of info, gleaned from promo materials, are in keeping with spoiler policy, when they appear within existing, longstanding character pages such as Ben's. The spoiler announcement on the main page refers to non-US users as the "population at risk" on the site due to the differences in airing times worldwide; but this kind of entirely unaired info seems to pose a more universal threat, to anyone who does watch the current US episode, but who for whatever reason is not in the habit of watching the promos. Seeing as the same kind of promo-spoilage happened (to me and to others) a week or two ago on Patchy's page, I just felt I needed to know for certain whether the "innocent", non-spoiler-designated pages on the site (such as the main characters' pages) can be trusted to, in fact, never contain any spoilers for episodes not yet aired in full. Or, if they do contain them, whether they can, at the very least, be trusted to be marked accordingly at the top of the page, so as to prevent any further mishaps. Thanks in advance for your clarifications. --Boyen 07:16, 4 March 2007 (PST)
Goofs about Ben's birth
Note: I've lived in Portland, Oregon for almost 50 years (I was born here), & I have to point out some goofs in this episode:
- Born in the woods 32 miles outside of town, while his parents were hiking. 32 miles from downtown Portland places them either in the foothills of Mt. St. Helens or in the Mt. Hood National Forest -- there just wasn't any other woodland place with hiking trails at the time. In Portland of the late 1960s, one just didn't take a bus or walk to either place -- one had to drive. So I'd expect that the Linus' car was nearby -- although we don't see it.
- Also, the landscape looks nothing like the forest around Portland -- which is heavy coniferous woods. I don't think they could find anywhere in Hawaii that looks like a Northwest rain forest.
- December 22 in the Portland area. December in Portland is rainy -- especially during the late 1960s. We're talking rainstorms that lasted weeks & poured down inches of rain at a time; lots of flooding. The 1964 flood was especially noteworthy in the Portland area. A woman 7 months pregnant out hiking in that soggy wilderness is not plausible for me.
- But they were likely in the mountains. If I'm right that they likely went up into the mountains, there would have been snow. Maybe not two or three feet deep, but enough that Ben's two parents would have been dressed quite heavily. And if I'm right that a pregnant woman might not want to go hiking in a soggy forest, I doubt she'd want to struggle thru a foot of snow.
Okay, I've shot enough holes in the story. Too bad the PTB didn't work a little harder on their homework. -- Llywrch 23:51, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
Ben's birthday can't be the 22nd
Not discounting it on the basis of weather for his birth scene but the show actualy provides all of the facts on its own. Three episodes provide enough clues to put his birthday on the 16th of December, give or take a day.
Expose Takes place 80 days after the crash placing it on December 11.
One of Us The plan for the others to strike in one week is made either the same day as Expose or the night before.
The Man Behind the Curtain Starts on Ben's birthday which is two days before the Others attack the beach.
If the plan was made to attack on the 11th then the attack would take place on the 18th placing Ben's birthday on the 16th. The plan was not made more than one day earlier or later than the 11th though making it impossible for Ben's birthday to be on the 22nd. Veridicum 19:02, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
- Par Avion takes place at day 80. Claire says day 80 in the episode. Juliet and Sun leave the Staff at the end of DOC on a Saturday morning at 6am in December. That has to be December 18th. The attack on the beach is an event in the future. Its best not to try and figure out the timeline base on events from the future. The timeline between Enter 77 and The Brig is very complicated but the one thing I know for sure is that you can't chop six whole days out of it. Dharmatel4 18:49, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
- The timeline puts The Man From Talahasee on day 80 with Juliet and Ben's conversation the next day. So when Ben told Juliet that they would see her in a week he really meant two weeks? The timeline is flawed in that regard then to assume that Ben actually didn't speak the truth instead of cryptically speaking the truth. Veridicum 19:09, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
- The timeline between day 80 and day 90 is full of things said in the show that have to be correct. If you make the timeline "right" for your "week", your going to make it "wrong" for all sorts of other things. I have already explained to you why Ben's birthday can't be on the 16th. You have to understand that its never a matter of "one" thing being true in the timeline, its a matter of several things being true at the same time. Dharmatel4 20:28, 10 May 2007 (PDT)
I hope you all relise we have a timeline set up on this site. It pretty much tells us that the current island date is Dec 22nd, one day after Ben say's it is his birthday making it Dec 21st.--Baker1000 16:23, 13 May 2007 (PDT)
Ben: threatened by, and possibly jealous...of Locke?
Hmm...I wonder. Perhaps Ben's power over the others stems from the fact that Ben is the only person that Jacob communicates with...until Locke came along. Maybe Ben took Locke to see Jacob because he wanted to find something out. He wanted to know if Jacob would interact with Locke. It would seem that it was Lockes idea to go visit Jacob. But remember what a brilliant manipulator Ben is. I recall Alex telling someone that Ben could put ideas in your head and make you think they were your own ideas (though I'm not entirely sure I'm not making this up or misremembering something). So. Ben plants the idea to visit Jacob into Locke's head. He feigns fear and reluctance of course. They arrive at the cabin, and the big question in Ben's mind is, what will happen? Will Jacob reveal himself to Locke? When Locke initially can't see Jacob and is disgusted by what a "pathetic" "fraud" Ben is, Ben probably feels some relief (and no doubt has an alternate plan for this contigency). But then, Jacob speaks to Locke. AND NOT TO BEN. This confirms Ben's worst fears about Locke; Ben now knows that he must kill Locke. (Although Locke is most certainly not going to die.) It's all about power and jealousy and fear of the potential usurper that is Locke.C.m. 10:36, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
Born in 1963 claim
I've removed the claim that he was born in 1963. The basis for this claim is some anonomous person associated with the production being told to find cars that were 1963 and older guessing in their own. I think this is fine for trivia, but its difficult to consider this to be canon. The other problem is that 1963 model cars don't necessarly imply 1963. The date could be anywhere from 1962 to 1964. Car model years in the US do not line up with January and the beginning of the calandar year. Dharmatel4 01:23, 12 May 2007 (PDT)
- I agree that 1963 model cars and older don't imply 1963 as the year. This could simply have been to ensure that younger model cars didn't show up to further limit the time. Two 1963 cars showing up on a road in 1969 would hardly have been remarkable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Boloboffin (talk • contribs) .
- I agree as well. I don't think that we can or should pin his birth date to a specific year with the information we have. I think a note in the trivia section that gives an approximate time frame would be more appropriate at this time. --NSHS07 (talk) 16:31, 12 May 2007 (PDT)
- If he was not born in 1963, then why has someone put his age as 41? Should this be removed?--Baker1000 08:19, 14 May 2007 (PDT)
- It has actually been confirmed by many sources that Ben is 41 and that he was born on December 22nd, 1963.
- Can you cite any of these supposedly multiple sources? --Jackdavinci 09:55, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
Which Portland?
Ben is born outside of Portland. Assuming he's in the US, here's what we can go with
- There are 10 Portlands in the US: Oregon, Maine, Connecticut, Kansas, Florida, Colorado, Texas, Arkansas, Indiana, Tennessee
- The weather is warm enough in late December for convertibles and hiking
- The foliage is lush and in season
For warm weather, Maine, Kansas, Connecticut & Oregon are definitely out. Colorado, Arkansas, Indiana, and Tennessee are probably out (please correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't lived there). That leaves Texas and Florida. Portland Texas is on the coast, so the foliage may be more tropical than much of the rest of Texas. Florida's Portland would also match pretty well. My money's on Florida, because a) no Texas accents and b) even in the mid 60s, you're far more likely to find hippies in Florida than Texas.Requiem 20:19, 13 May 2007 (PDT)
The "Could [...] be" questions.
I think the questions beginning "Could" should be reomoved because they are more hypothetical questions than proper questions... --Electrology 09:17, 14 May 2007 (PDT)
Weather in Portland December 22
There is an extended message in discussion under "Man behind the Curtain" on weather. To summerize it, December 22nd in 1964 was an unusually warm day in Portland for the time of year. It was 59 degress (F). The temps in years around it were much colder. Dharmatel4 10:29, 15 May 2007 (PDT)
Why did Ben pick Henry Gale as his identity?
This is a question I posted at Talk: Henry Gale. I'd appreciate any input on it -- or at least knowing whether it is an unsolved mystery worth including in the article. -- Llywrch 15:05, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
It would seem Ben would almost want to be caught. He could have easily said the real Henry Gale was his partner in the balloon, but he took the man's name as his own.--Phil (talk) 15:21, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
The Islands Original Inhabitant
Ben to Locke, at Dharma Corpses: "These are my people. They came here seeking harmony. They couldn't even co-exist with the islands original inhabitant." Singular? --Xmuskrat 15:25, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
Harry Potter?
Anyone else think the young Ben looked a lot like Harry Potter? And given the magical nature of the island, this may be an intentional reference to Harry Potter. Can any Harry Potter fans think of anything specific that might be an allusion to Harry Potter?
The nature of Ben
Michael Emerson has said a couple of times he thinks his character might not really be the bad guy he seems to be. This is kind of hard to believe though, considering Ben has killed so many people and lied so much. Anyone agree with Michael? What could future episodes show about Ben that would make him appear to be a "good" guy afterall?
Everything that happens on the island is somehow being generated by Ben.
Season 3 seems to basically implicate Ben as the driving force (perhaps not intentionally) of a lot of the "internal mechanics" of how the island works. A longer summary of the "solipsism" theory is [1], but I think two big pieces of evidence really buttress this hypothesis.
1. "Two days after I found out I had a fatal tumor on my spine, a spinal surgeon fell out of the sky. And if that's not proof of God, I don't know what is." That seems to implicate Ben as the ultimate reason for the crash of Flight 815.
2. Ben's mother died giving birth to Ben when in her seventh month of pregnancy. Now Ben lives on the one little place on the whole planet where all of the pregnant women on the island die just before reaching their third trimester. Doesn't that fact seem just a little too extraordinary to be a coincidence? KhakiAchilles 00:56, 2 June 2007 (PDT)
- Given those two examples alone, I think I would have to agree with you. That second one is really compelling. Liveweak 11:08, 31 December 2007 (PST)
Rename to "Ben Linus"
Ben is always known as Ben, not Benjamin. It is inconsistent with all our other articles to give him his extended full name in the title, rather than his common full name: if we keep him as-is, we need to move Kate Austen to Katherine Austen, John Locke to Johnathan Locke, Walt Lloyd to Walter Lloyd, etc. There's no apparent reason to use the longer and less common "Benjamin" here. -Silence 01:43, 18 July 2007 (PDT)
